Curse

alen · Oct 01, 2008, 10:54 AM // 10:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by yaku wuvs mcfood

rawr= mechanic abuse...now that there's no VoD i haven't seen them play yet...

and besides...piGz 4 gold in 2 months

gujda-nub-go-back-to-lord-ganking-(my-spacebar-is-broken)

fenix · Oct 01, 2008, 11:49 AM // 11:49

lol, are people really saying that EvIL are bad because guilds now are better than the ones they played against?

Hahahahaha. Nice joke.

Stupid Shizno · Oct 02, 2008, 02:49 PM // 14:49

you havnt seen rawr play ? ....

serioulsy? ....

they took 2cd in sept mat and 8th in aug mat....

Snow Bunny · Oct 02, 2008, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonTerror

dR's gold was won by speccing against sinsplit).

What?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

LifesRestorer · Oct 02, 2008, 03:30 PM // 15:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by alen

(my-spacebar-is-broken)

you are too strong and brave as a warrior then

AnonTerror · Oct 03, 2008, 06:08 AM // 06:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snow Bunny

What?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Nevermind got their gold win confused with their lost to ME. Running two Avatars of Dwanya and Derv runner is pretty build wars to me anyhow.

Gforce · Oct 03, 2008, 06:23 AM // 06:23

You are ignoring the fact that they played a different build to get to the monthly finals.. The spec against [Me] was called for because [Me] always ran the same build. Oh btw, dR ran a really broken build that month in the other matches.

Sentinel of Dark · Oct 05, 2008, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by AnonTerror

dR's gold was won by err7.

fixed
12chars

Divine Slaya · Oct 06, 2008, 02:22 PM // 14:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sentinel of Dark

fixed
12chars

No you didn't.

Sc Bow · Oct 09, 2008, 10:15 AM // 10:15

Quote:

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...gwwc123105.php

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...gwfc040306.php

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...gwfc051506.php

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...gwfc062606.php

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...tumn101606.php

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive...erfest2006.php

2005/2006 ladders.

Quote:

http://www.guildwars.com/competitive/ladder/default.php

2008 ladder. 9/20 inactives.

Oh yeh..i remember now...guilds were bad before..oh wait..isn't the same players still playing gw now ?!
fix'd.

ChopChop · Oct 09, 2008, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sc Bow

Oh yeh..i remember now...guilds were bad before..oh wait..isn't the same players still playing gw now ?!
fix'd.

Yes but those same players got 3 years worth of experience now, as compared to only a few months back then.

By todays standard, someone with under a years worth of experience in gvg would be bad

Sc Bow · Oct 09, 2008, 05:14 PM // 17:14

Quote:

Yes but those same players got 3 years worth of experience now, as compared to only a few months back then.

Ahh..lol..

Are you saying that people need 3 years of experience to be good ? Seriously, this argue fails.

Some people will say, blabla EvIL was playin 10hours/day (yeh lol..), but does that mean any guild playing 5hours/day will make them good and be n°1 for months ?

I don't think so. I'm not doin some apology for EvIL, i'm just sayin that people should stop cryin about gw, old times were old times.

Quote:

By todays standard, someone with under a years worth of experience in gvg would be bad

Again...lol...there is lot of people don't have <6 months gvg under feets and being top100, u know this.
Ok, doesn't mean their good, but performances here. Ah..sorry, forget that top100 is shit

I understand what u tried to mean here, but I seriously disagree. Guilds now are shitter than before.

Asplode · Oct 09, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

You're all very pretty princesses. Stop fighting amongst yourselves imo!

Everyone's good, so long as they play ^.^

Snow Bunny · Oct 09, 2008, 07:27 PM // 19:27

Pretty sure [rawr] at the height of imbalanced blockway would VoD the shit out of EvIL at their best.

ChopChop · Oct 11, 2008, 09:38 PM // 21:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sc Bow

I understand what u tried to mean here, but I seriously disagree. Guilds now are shitter than before.

This is provably untrue.

If you look at skill usage charts from recent GvG mATs you will find that in the games that played out somewhat evenly (both teams fighting for about the same length of time).. most of the better players on the same spots (on opposite teams) are very close together in skill usage frequency and pattern.
This generally means that their play with the given template is approaching optimal, and while the skill usage does not give a complete picture it can be used to determine if someone 'gets it'.

Compared to some of the skill usage charts from teh old championships it gives a pretty clear picture that people now are playing their respective character templates a lot more fluidly, there are less rarely used skills, if you work out energy spent / regen, you will find people are much better at pushing their bars.

I did some rudimentary warrior calculations in some of the closer mAT games we had, and I found that most of the 'good' warriors, while having a slightly different play style and skill usage pattern, all pushed their 'energy usage' very close to what could be considered maximally obtainable energy usage, generally meaning that they are getting the most out of their build.

This of course completely ignores other aspects of the game such as movement, reaction times, communication etc.
But I would have a fairly easy time arguing that all those things have if anything also improved tremendously over the past 3 years.

The fact of the matter is, the actual difference between a top 10 and a top 50 guild is not longer int he big obvious things you see in observer mode, such as an entire team moving and completely outmaneuvering the other team, but are alot more subtle, and range from small skill changes in builds, to timing of used skills, squeezing out kills when you know the monk just bottomed out and can't cast for 8 seconds, etc.

This is not because the top teams have gotten worse, this is instead because there have been a general increase in the level of play from the 'mid tier' teams, so that it is no longer possible for 1 team to just 'own everyone'.
Yes you have some movement advantages vs. a weaker team, yes sometimes teams fall apart against a split, but your average top 50 team is actually fairly competent.

snaek · Oct 11, 2008, 10:07 PM // 22:07

(in regards to teams being better/worse than they were before)

well, over time...yesh ppl do get smrter and wiser
they kno wut works in gw and wut doesnt
so teh overall player quality rises
and general play gets tougher

its easier to become "good"
and therefore matches will be closer
and skill levels will be higher

but u must also factor in the interest levels
gw has become stale and pvp is dying
facing "good" teams is not quite the same as being competitive

having the will and dertimination to not jus be good
but to be better than everyone else
(imo) plays jus as much of a part in skill level
than knowledge and wisdom of game mechanics and knowing how to be an effective player

and i guess u could say [evil] had that aspect to them
if they can jus learn teh new game mechanics and playstyles
then they could be at teh top again

(sowrie...i've been watchin too much rocky -__-')

Div · Oct 11, 2008, 10:27 PM // 22:27

Dumb thread is dumb.

Polly is right in that players and teams are both much better than before. If you matched up any "top" American guild right now (rawr, even DM and pd) against EvIL at their prime, the American guild would win regardless of whether or not there's old VoD or current tiebreaker system.

However, it's obvious if you think about it. The players that still played today have a lot more cumulative experience than EvIL (which leads to them being better), but it doesn't mean they're necessarily more talented.

An analogy would be if you had a really good tennis player at the age of 12 (EvIL), and an above average one (other guilds). Of course the really good one is going to win at that time, and in GW's case, EvIL *did* win. Now say the really good player all of a sudden stopped playing. Now they're both 25. Of course an above-average player at the age of 25 will beat a top quality 12 year old, regardless of whether he's playing the 12 year old at his "prime" or whether he's playing another 25 year old who hasn't played for 13 years.

Divinus Stella · Oct 12, 2008, 02:13 AM // 02:13

Well im not sure what skill usage charts you have been looking at, but last time i checked [rawr]'s warriors used a combined total of about 10 bulls strikes (maybe less) between them in a 28min match and atleast half of those missed.

PyrAnkh · Oct 12, 2008, 08:56 AM // 08:56

bulls strike on spirit never misses.

Asplode · Oct 12, 2008, 11:48 AM // 11:48

The fact of the matter is that I personally, back when EvIL was in their prime was classed as a medium-range GvG player at best, even though I started playing in the betas much like they did, and wasted an equal amount of time in tombs in the earliest ages of post-release GW PvP.

Ergo, they learned much faster than I did and are very clearly better at the game.

However as the hare in this turtle and the hare story, EvIL had to take a 2-year nap in the form of mandatory military service, and in that time me and my turtle peers, the mid-range GvG'ers of the past days, have filled the power vacuum and assumed the dusty throne. As for the other hares at the top of the rung, they just got bored and left.

However as far as EvIL goes, their entire core isn't back, the spirit of competition isn't the same, and their own motivation is somewhat muted by the lack of an offline tournament as was the appeal before.

Danjang said quite flatly that he doesn't expect to be competitive for a whole 3 months, let alone rise to the top of the competition. Also, from what I've gathered playing with them, they're not in a huge hurry to board your typical eurobalance bandwagon, wanting instead to experiment with everything unconventional.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divinus Stella

Well im not sure what skill usage charts you have been looking at, but last time i checked [rawr]'s warriors used a combined total of about 10 bulls strikes (maybe less) between them in a 28min match and atleast half of those missed.

What? Okay you're probably looking at the the game vs StS's SB/RI, where admittedly yeah we used 6 bull's strikes. However that match didn't go 28 minutes.

Even then, it's rather funny the sheer number of people who gauge success solely on bull's strikes and distracting shots, hopelessly caught up in this sense of pvp vanity. Looking good on obs mode shouldn't ever get in the way of winning a game.